Getting the blues from Brown’s conference spin Iain Macwhirter on Labour unity IT'S THE eyes that are the give-away. In the sci-fi comedy Men In Black, you could tell the aliens who had stolen the bodies of Earthlings because their eyes always behaved in inhuman ways. Well, the Brownite young Turks have similar oracular ataxia: think of the thousand-yard stare of Ed Balls; the manic gleam in the eyes David Miliband; or Douglas Alexander's cross-eyed glaze, which makes the development secretary look as if he is too exhausted to see straight.
Everyone has praised Gordon Brown's conference for its unity, cleverness and presentation. How he has shafted the Tories by stealing their clothes. But there was something alien about this Labour conference, a strange look in its eyes. They behaved a little like The Stepford Wives, or some religious sect. Come to think of it, the last time I saw someone looking like David Miliband they were trying to sell me a copy of The Watchtower.
Gordon Brown is in danger of creating a party in his own dysfunctional image - full of eager-beaver acolytes falling over themselves to anticipate the whims of the Great Helmsman. The Stepford ministers seem to have erased all memory of Tony Blair, the leader they cheered to the rafters only 12 months ago. Blair has turned into a non-person, whose name they dare not mention.
It has become a cartoonist's cliché to portray Gordon Brown as Stalin, but the party conference seems to want to turn satire into reality by acquiescing to this monolithic style of leadership. Everything about this conference went too far. The egregious platform praise for Brown; the airbrushing of Blair; the stifling of dissent; the recycled announcements; the cynical moralising; the desperate bid for the Tory vote; even the election speculation has been a tease too far.
I found it all a little scary, not least because of Gordon Brown's discovery of the Bible; his homilies, parables and references to his father's sermons. The "moral compass" that Brown has been brandishing at every opportunity, like some holier-than-thou prig who has a hot line to the almighty. I don't remember Gordon Brown being a dedicated churchgoer - he certainly never admitted to it in his Red Paper days, or when Labour was in opposition. Perhaps he has been a closet Christian all his life, but that makes it all the more cynical, surely, to start parading your faith late in life purely for political purposes.
It's the same with his Britishness. There were 81 references to "B-word" in Brown's speech. He was using techniques of repetition drawn from American advertising, but it sounded neurotic, insincere, protesting too much. Then there was the ham-fisted celebration of John Smeaton, have-a-go hero of Glasgow airport. It was all so clunkingly, transparently manipulative. As Brown got up to speak, the colour of the conference stage backdrop changed from red to Tory blue to make sure TV viewers got the message.
I accept that Brown is a master politician at the top of his game, and all that. But is it necessary to bid so shamelessly for the Tory vote; to borrow Michael Howard's "dog whistle" - the practice of using ambiguous phrases to communicate with the baser prejudices of Tory followers - and then blow it harder than even the former Tory leader dared in 2005? Howard never called for "British jobs for British workers". Nor did he promise to deport immigrants selling drugs and firearms, making the dog-whistle elision of foreigners and crime.
Brown's slogan "Strength to Change Britain" was pure Thatcher, and he had set the scene for his first conference as Labour leader by taking tea with Margaret. Like Thatcher, Brown is trying to appeal to the sections of the lower middle classes who like a strong leader who'll stand up for Britain and do something about immigration. But does he need to be so blatant about it? Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think that winning praise from Norman Tebbit is something a Labour leader should be proud of.
Of course, I can see what he is doing politically: trying to force the Tories to move further to the right by rhetorically colonising much of their ground on law and order, the family and immigration. The idea is that Cameron will now be under such pressure from his own people to counter this exercise in Labour cross-dressing that he'll be forced to take ever more extreme positions. Then again, he may not.
But a bigger question is this: what is all this spin doing to his own Labour Party by stuffing all this Tory nonsense down its throat? Isn't Brown in danger of dragging it to a position alien to Labour's own roots and values? Brown's yes-ministers have been trying to anticipate his every ideological move, eager to show their willingness to abase themselves. Thus we had Jack Straw ludicrously praising himself for being a "have-a-go hero" and calling for the law to be changed so that citizens have less risk of prosecution for attacking criminals.
Only a few years ago, he was bitterly opposing Conservative MPs for praising "have-a-go hero" vigilante, Tony Martin, who killed a burglar with a shotgun. Brown's people may be delighted that the Police Federation, no less, are now criticising Labour ministers for being too right-wing, but again I don't think it's something Labour should be proud of.
Nor should they be proud of the way conference has been emasculated. A couple of years ago we attacked Tony Blair's thought police for ejecting octogenarian Walter Wolfgang from the conference for heckling the foreign secretary during a debate on Iraq. Well, under Brown, there was no risk of that happening because there was no debate on Iraq, or any other issue of the moment, such as private equity, low pay, immigration, Europe. Under the new conference rules debates of substance have been replaced by sycophantic interviews by TV celebrities.
The abolition of debates and of votes may have made Labour appear more united, but it is the unity of the graveyard, because the annual conference is now dead as far as real politics is concerned. I don't know how the broadcasting organisations can justify their coverage of this vacuous rubbish.
This is spin as we have never seen it before. If there is any doubt now about who was the true heart and soul of New Labour, it should be clear from this conference. Brown is a virtuoso of the dark arts of media manipulation and focus group politics. I just hope that Brown still knows who he is, what he really stands for beneath all the triangulated Conservatism. After this week, I certainly don't.
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Posted by: Im not really here on 9:59pm Sat 29 Sep 07
That's the way to get a conference behind you and show the public a unified front - abolish debates and votes, and don't say anything about anything very much.
There looks like an election coming and the last thing they wanted was antbody not towing the party line, er I mean Maggie Thatchers line, er Norman Tebbit's line? Help me out folks, who's conference was it, Labour or Tory?
That's the way to get a conference behind you and show the public a unified front - abolish debates and votes, and don't say anything about anything very much.
There looks like an election coming and the last thing they wanted was antbody not towing the party line, er I mean Maggie Thatchers line, er Norman Tebbit's line? Help me out folks, who's conference was it, Labour or Tory?
Posted by: martin, dundee on 10:10pm Sat 29 Sep 07
Hariet Harman said the Tories were still the nasty party.With Gordon Brown trying his hardest to be another version of the Tories to attract their supporters what are we to think of New Labour??
They have abandoned their roots, and in Scotland they have lost the support of the electorate.GB having Thatcher round for tea says it all.
Hariet Harman said the Tories were still the nasty party.With Gordon Brown trying his hardest to be another version of the Tories to attract their supporters what are we to think of New Labour??
They have abandoned their roots, and in Scotland they have lost the support of the electorate.GB having Thatcher round for tea says it all.
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 10:11pm Sat 29 Sep 07
.
Lack of debate equals lack of accountability.
if there is no debate, no conversation, no whatever then it is a certainty that New Labour are a collection of control freaks. it was there for all to witness, the spin, the vague promises of whatever, stage managed, slick,vulgar, degenerate pap.They are so far up their own 'Britishness' ar$eholes in praise of themselves that nothing but nothing is left of what was once a party that stood for something,however transitional a notion of something of worth might be in the realms of reality.
it has nothing to do with whatever political stance folk take,whether it be to the right or left. it is the lack of integrity,the lack of accountability, the lack of honesty,the lack of competence and the so little evidence of any compassion not encompassed by spin and self serving platitudes.
Mercenaries selling themselves to the highest bidders. If this is all the elite shown in all their nakedness of ambition and gravitas indulging in a sycophantic orgy of gratification of themselves can offer the nation then truly its time for us to be rid of such and its time for folk to look elsewhere for substance and hope of good government.
There is little to recommend the political alternatives within the straight jacket confines of 'Britishness' in England but hope is rekindled someplace else for such.
Who will rid us of this corruption called New labour governance?
Who will be honest, accountable and competent in its dealings with its citizenry?
Not this Brown mess of self seeking, carpetbagging lowlife pondskum, thats for sure.
.
.
Lack of debate equals lack of accountability.
if there is no debate, no conversation, no whatever then it is a certainty that New Labour are a collection of control freaks. it was there for all to witness, the spin, the vague promises of whatever, stage managed, slick,vulgar, degenerate pap.They are so far up their own 'Britishness' ar$eholes in praise of themselves that nothing but nothing is left of what was once a party that stood for something,however transitional a notion of something of worth might be in the realms of reality.
it has nothing to do with whatever political stance folk take,whether it be to the right or left. it is the lack of integrity,the lack of accountability, the lack of honesty,the lack of competence and the so little evidence of any compassion not encompassed by spin and self serving platitudes.
Mercenaries selling themselves to the highest bidders. If this is all the elite shown in all their nakedness of ambition and gravitas indulging in a sycophantic orgy of gratification of themselves can offer the nation then truly its time for us to be rid of such and its time for folk to look elsewhere for substance and hope of good government.
There is little to recommend the political alternatives within the straight jacket confines of 'Britishness' in England but hope is rekindled someplace else for such.
Who will rid us of this corruption called New labour governance?
Who will be honest, accountable and competent in its dealings with its citizenry?
Not this Brown mess of self seeking, carpetbagging lowlife pondskum, thats for sure.
.
Posted by: Dougthedug on 11:49pm Sat 29 Sep 07
"I just hope that Brown still knows who he is, what he really stands for beneath all the triangulated Conservatism. After this week, I certainly don't."
Iain, after reading three of your articles in the last week your opinions and political judgement are all over the place.
1. On Saturday, in the Herald in, "Team Wendy squanders hopes of a fresh start", you believed that Wendy Alexander was going to be head of a fictional Scottish Labour party not just the Labour head girl in the Scottish Parliament.
2. In last weeks Sunday Herald you thought that Gordon Brown had, "calm, unsensational authority", and was way ahead in handling Iraq.
3. This week after the conference you don't know what Brown stands for.
I take an interest in politics as a hobby not as a livelihood but I never thought for one moment that Ms. Alexander was goingto be head of the fictional Scottish Labour Party and posted this information several times in various blogs.
And my views on pre- and post-conference Gordon Brown have not changed one iota. He's a man who will pull a disappearing act at the hint of any difficulty and is continuing his and Blair's policy of changing the last vestiges of the Labour Party into the all encompassing Labtory Party. The only difference in policy between Blair and Brown is that unlike Blair, Brown has a deep psychological need to become more British than anyone to make up for the perceived disadvantage of being born outside the pale of England.
I read Brown's speech on the web and the only thing that jumped out was how mawkish and disjointed it was. Nothing in the content suprised me at all.
I'll give you some praise for finally seeing the light on Brown, I hope your next article will continue on the road to Damascus with the title, "Devolution is good, more devolution is better, independence is best".
"I just hope that Brown still knows who he is, what he really stands for beneath all the triangulated Conservatism. After this week, I certainly don't."
Iain, after reading three of your articles in the last week your opinions and political judgement are all over the place.
1. On Saturday, in the Herald in, "Team Wendy squanders hopes of a fresh start", you believed that Wendy Alexander was going to be head of a fictional Scottish Labour party not just the Labour head girl in the Scottish Parliament.
2. In last weeks Sunday Herald you thought that Gordon Brown had, "calm, unsensational authority", and was way ahead in handling Iraq.
3. This week after the conference you don't know what Brown stands for.
I take an interest in politics as a hobby not as a livelihood but I never thought for one moment that Ms. Alexander was goingto be head of the fictional Scottish Labour Party and posted this information several times in various blogs.
And my views on pre- and post-conference Gordon Brown have not changed one iota. He's a man who will pull a disappearing act at the hint of any difficulty and is continuing his and Blair's policy of changing the last vestiges of the Labour Party into the all encompassing Labtory Party. The only difference in policy between Blair and Brown is that unlike Blair, Brown has a deep psychological need to become more British than anyone to make up for the perceived disadvantage of being born outside the pale of England.
I read Brown's speech on the web and the only thing that jumped out was how mawkish and disjointed it was. Nothing in the content suprised me at all.
I'll give you some praise for finally seeing the light on Brown, I hope your next article will continue on the road to Damascus with the title, "Devolution is good, more devolution is better, independence is best".
Posted by: Frank Allen, Drummoyne on 12:12am Sun 30 Sep 07
[quote]the annual conference is now dead as far as real politics is concerned. I don't know how the broadcasting organisations can justify their coverage of this vacuous rubbish.[/quote]
Hold the front page - there's been a boring party conference. This article is another example of the manufactured crisis & exaggerated criticism that keeps the wheels greased on a 24-hour hour media that needs to say something...anything
...preferably negative. And then say it again.
A bit of perspective - I won't be hanging out for the DVD collection of great party conference moments of yesteryear. Conference season TV must have been invented to get unemployed people out of the house. It is universally awful and sychophantic in audience, agenda and execution - and always has been.
At least Broon had the decency to look uncomfortable as he delivered his speechwriter's terrible gags; and suitably embarassed when he got a round of applause every time he stopped for a breath during his normal lumbering delivery.
the annual conference is now dead as far as real politics is concerned. I don't know how the broadcasting organisations can justify their coverage of this vacuous rubbish.
Hold the front page - there's been a boring party conference. This article is another example of the manufactured crisis & exaggerated criticism that keeps the wheels greased on a 24-hour hour media that needs to say something...anything
...preferably negative. And then say it again.
A bit of perspective - I won't be hanging out for the DVD collection of great party conference moments of yesteryear. Conference season TV must have been invented to get unemployed people out of the house. It is universally awful and sychophantic in audience, agenda and execution - and always has been.
At least Broon had the decency to look uncomfortable as he delivered his speechwriter's terrible gags; and suitably embarassed when he got a round of applause every time he stopped for a breath during his normal lumbering delivery.
Posted by: Olav, Gdynia on 12:29am Sun 30 Sep 07
Good article. Brown is a spiv, just like Blair. I hope the people of Fife have the intelligence to see that, and the courage to dump him at the next election.
Good article. Brown is a spiv, just like Blair. I hope the people of Fife have the intelligence to see that, and the courage to dump him at the next election.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 1:07am Sun 30 Sep 07
Good article: You know that you are courting
the crypto-facist vote not just by having those old animals, Thatcher?Tebbitt on board,
but when you are to the right of the truely
awefull Police Federation, then you know you are in trouble!
I like the line; "the unity of the graveyard"
but I would carry it to its logical conclusion.
Its not just the conference that has "died" but
the heart and soul of the Labour Party, and the members themselves. A more despicable rable
would be hard in the finding!!
Anyone still unconvinced about Brown loathsome character should pick up a copy of Tom Bower's
biography; it will frighten the bejesus out of you!!
Good article: You know that you are courting
the crypto-facist vote not just by having those old animals, Thatcher?Tebbitt on board,
but when you are to the right of the truely
awefull Police Federation, then you know you are in trouble!
I like the line; "the unity of the graveyard"
but I would carry it to its logical conclusion.
Its not just the conference that has "died" but
the heart and soul of the Labour Party, and the members themselves. A more despicable rable
would be hard in the finding!!
Anyone still unconvinced about Brown loathsome character should pick up a copy of Tom Bower's
biography; it will frighten the bejesus out of you!!
Posted by: gran at the granary, perth on 7:33am Sun 30 Sep 07
Politicians are politicians. Journalists are journalists. Take them for what they are.
Politicians are politicians. Journalists are journalists. Take them for what they are.
Posted by: Gonyursel, Glasgow on 7:55am Sun 30 Sep 07
[bold]Please oh please Gordie give us an election in Scotland and let us have that Labour bloodbath I have waited for all my life.[/bold]
Please oh please Gordie give us an election in Scotland and let us have that Labour bloodbath I have waited for all my life. Posted by: Gordon, Ayr on 8:48am Sun 30 Sep 07
Now that Brown has started to include the bible in his political sermons, it fair starts the old Sunday School memories flooding back, like Esau selling his birthright to his brother Jacob for a mess of potage. I wonder what Keir Hardie would have made of it?
After seven elections voting for his party to kick the Tories out and keep them out methinks Sir Eck may just win more than a few disgruntled Labour votes in their Central Belt heartland next time round.
Now that Brown has started to include the bible in his political sermons, it fair starts the old Sunday School memories flooding back, like Esau selling his birthright to his brother Jacob for a mess of potage. I wonder what Keir Hardie would have made of it?
After seven elections voting for his party to kick the Tories out and keep them out methinks Sir Eck may just win more than a few disgruntled Labour votes in their Central Belt heartland next time round.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 8:57am Sun 30 Sep 07
[italic]Re Brownite oracular ataxia: think of the thousand-yard stare of Ed Balls; the manic gleam in the eyes David Miliband; or Douglas Alexander's cross-eyed glaze, which makes the development secretary look too exhausted to see straight.[/italic]
Perhaps they really are taken over by aliens and not very nice ones.
Re Brownite oracular ataxia: think of the thousand-yard stare of Ed Balls; the manic gleam in the eyes David Miliband; or Douglas Alexander's cross-eyed glaze, which makes the development secretary look too exhausted to see straight.
Perhaps they really are taken over by aliens and not very nice ones.
Posted by: EuroMac, Brussels on 8:58am Sun 30 Sep 07
"I just hope that Brown still knows who he is, what he really stands for beneath all the triangulated Conservatism. After this week, I certainly don't."
Apart from agreeing with Dougthedug - you are all over the place - have you considered that he doesn't stand for anything. Whatever he may have been, or believed in, previously, has gone. His years in waiting (and I suspect a degree of self-loathing at his own lack of courage in challenging Blair), have eaten this man up. He is a shell, burning with the desire for power - not to use it, but merely to have it. He never had a vision of how to use it.
There is nothing - no conviction, no vision worthy of comment - nothing, beyond the pursuit of power. now that he has it, his only perceived use for it is to increase his grip. He will not use it in any constructive way other than to tighten his grip. He will not let himself be challenged - directly or by proxy (see Wendy's coronation for example), because he is clearly, clearly terrified of losing in a way that makes you worry for the man's inner confidence.
When I look at the guy, I see a man without b*lls; he has bottled every challenge:
* The leadership challenge after Smith died
* Wielding the sword against Blair, even when he could (it was cowardice that stayed his hand, not compassion)
* His own accession to the leadership - could not conscience even a token challenge
* Ditto Scotland's leadership contest
* Ditto debate at the party conference
* His regular disappearing acts (think his positions on Iraq, the Scottish elections, Northern Rock, foot and mouth)
Evidence aplenty of his lack of courage (and quite a bit of the vindictive bully that lies beneath). How can someone like this take the tough decisions needed to change a country? The answer is, they can't, and he won't - he does not have the fibre to stand up to any real oppostion.
I used to think that Alistair Campbell (memorably described as a "mouthpiece for a ringpiece") had been unnecessarily harsh with the "psychologically flawed" comment, but now, it's clear he was right.
The only thing in our favour, is that he will bottle the election; then he may be found out - that is 'Iron Chancellor' image was a Wizard of Oz job, when the markets - led by - correctly - a lack of confidence in house prices, and that the whole thing has been built on sand.
In summary Iain, you don't know what he really stands for, because he doesn't really stand for anything apart from his own glorification
"I just hope that Brown still knows who he is, what he really stands for beneath all the triangulated Conservatism. After this week, I certainly don't."
Apart from agreeing with Dougthedug - you are all over the place - have you considered that he doesn't stand for anything. Whatever he may have been, or believed in, previously, has gone. His years in waiting (and I suspect a degree of self-loathing at his own lack of courage in challenging Blair), have eaten this man up. He is a shell, burning with the desire for power - not to use it, but merely to have it. He never had a vision of how to use it.
There is nothing - no conviction, no vision worthy of comment - nothing, beyond the pursuit of power. now that he has it, his only perceived use for it is to increase his grip. He will not use it in any constructive way other than to tighten his grip. He will not let himself be challenged - directly or by proxy (see Wendy's coronation for example), because he is clearly, clearly terrified of losing in a way that makes you worry for the man's inner confidence.
When I look at the guy, I see a man without b*lls; he has bottled every challenge:
* The leadership challenge after Smith died
* Wielding the sword against Blair, even when he could (it was cowardice that stayed his hand, not compassion)
* His own accession to the leadership - could not conscience even a token challenge
* Ditto Scotland's leadership contest
* Ditto debate at the party conference
* His regular disappearing acts (think his positions on Iraq, the Scottish elections, Northern Rock, foot and mouth)
Evidence aplenty of his lack of courage (and quite a bit of the vindictive bully that lies beneath). How can someone like this take the tough decisions needed to change a country? The answer is, they can't, and he won't - he does not have the fibre to stand up to any real oppostion.
I used to think that Alistair Campbell (memorably described as a "mouthpiece for a ringpiece") had been unnecessarily harsh with the "psychologically flawed" comment, but now, it's clear he was right.
The only thing in our favour, is that he will bottle the election; then he may be found out - that is 'Iron Chancellor' image was a Wizard of Oz job, when the markets - led by - correctly - a lack of confidence in house prices, and that the whole thing has been built on sand.
In summary Iain, you don't know what he really stands for, because he doesn't really stand for anything apart from his own glorification
Posted by: Buris, Larky on 9:29am Sun 30 Sep 07
Well said Euromac, an excellent analysis.
Well said Euromac, an excellent analysis.
Posted by: Mr Lachie Todd, Edinburgh on 9:34am Sun 30 Sep 07
I wish I had the political and psychological insight of EuroMac?
Mind you, not only could he have been describing Gordon Brown, but just about every other politician that has ever lived!
I wish I had the political and psychological insight of EuroMac?
Mind you, not only could he have been describing Gordon Brown, but just about every other politician that has ever lived!
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 9:54am Sun 30 Sep 07
I am still dazzled by the lights from the glazed eyes of the Stepford wives and hubbies glowing admiration at Boremooth's 'Saturday Night at the Poms'.
I am still dazzled by the lights from the glazed eyes of the Stepford wives and hubbies glowing admiration at Boremooth's 'Saturday Night at the Poms'.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 9:54am Sun 30 Sep 07
I am still dazzled by the lights from the glazed eyes of the Stepford wives and hubbies glowing admiration at Boremooth's 'Saturday Night at the Poms'.
I am still dazzled by the lights from the glazed eyes of the Stepford wives and hubbies glowing admiration at Boremooth's 'Saturday Night at the Poms'.
Posted by: SC, Dundee on 10:13am Sun 30 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Im not really here[/bold] wrote:
That's the way to get a conference behind you and show the public a unified front - abolish debates and votes, and don't say anything about anything very much. There looks like an election coming and the last thing they wanted was antbody not towing the party line, er I mean Maggie Thatchers line, er Norman Tebbit's line? Help me out folks, who's conference was it, Labour or Tory?[/quote] You mean Maggie Thatcher's line, but without the economic liberalism - the aspect of her premiership that changed this country for good and hopefully, forever.
You can't confuse a socialist like Broon with Thatcher just because he talks authoritarian. Socialism and authoritarianism are very comfy bedfellows (Stalin, Lenin, Hitler at al.).
Im not really here wrote:
That's the way to get a conference behind you and show the public a unified front - abolish debates and votes, and don't say anything about anything very much. There looks like an election coming and the last thing they wanted was antbody not towing the party line, er I mean Maggie Thatchers line, er Norman Tebbit's line? Help me out folks, who's conference was it, Labour or Tory?
You mean Maggie Thatcher's line, but without the economic liberalism - the aspect of her premiership that changed this country for good and hopefully, forever.
You can't confuse a socialist like Broon with Thatcher just because he talks authoritarian. Socialism and authoritarianism are very comfy bedfellows (Stalin, Lenin, Hitler at al.).
Posted by: EuroMac, Brussels on 10:22am Sun 30 Sep 07
Lachie Todd wrote:
[quote]Not only could he have been describing Gordon Brown, but just about every other politician that has ever lived!
[/quote]
I don't think so; Thatcher was a conviction politician. You don't need to hold with the convictions to admit she had them...
Blair believed he had God on his side and acted accordingly, and at least faced the country and won an election. He was a vile, nasty piece of scum, but never mind.
Even Major faced down his own detractors, and went to the country and won (not both times, to be fair, but he tried).
Show me when Brown ever had the cojones to face down anyone?
Now "vile, nasty piece of scum" describes the vast majority of politicians quite well
Lachie Todd wrote:
Not only could he have been describing Gordon Brown, but just about every other politician that has ever lived!
I don't think so; Thatcher was a conviction politician. You don't need to hold with the convictions to admit she had them...
Blair believed he had God on his side and acted accordingly, and at least faced the country and won an election. He was a vile, nasty piece of scum, but never mind.
Even Major faced down his own detractors, and went to the country and won (not both times, to be fair, but he tried).
Show me when Brown ever had the cojones to face down anyone?
Now "vile, nasty piece of scum" describes the vast majority of politicians quite well
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:08am Sun 30 Sep 07
DougtheDOug has a good point:
Iain Macwhirter can frustrate a reader. Just when you think he is on the road to Damascus suddenly his alter-ego hauls him back into 'Wonderland' just to keep him and the rest of us on our toes, it seems.
I enjoy his occasional forays into analytical writing. We must be supportive however as every tortured Gollum has something to salvage.
DougtheDOug has a good point:
Iain Macwhirter can frustrate a reader. Just when you think he is on the road to Damascus suddenly his alter-ego hauls him back into 'Wonderland' just to keep him and the rest of us on our toes, it seems.
I enjoy his occasional forays into analytical writing. We must be supportive however as every tortured Gollum has something to salvage.
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 11:18am Sun 30 Sep 07
SC, Dundee,
"You can't confuse a socialist like Broon"
Broon, a socialist? You jest, don't you? There isn't a socialist in the English Labour party! And that includes the wannabees in Scotland!
SC, Dundee,
"You can't confuse a socialist like Broon"
Broon, a socialist? You jest, don't you? There isn't a socialist in the English Labour party! And that includes the wannabees in Scotland!
Posted by: LEGION, ALBA on 12:04pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Scots Labour voters must now clearly see their loyalty has been betrayed...surely? Vote London Labour for pandering Tory middle-England policies! The Daily Rectum/Scum/Scottish branch of London Labour only exist to ensure Brown continues to do what he wants. Surely, it must be in-yer-face- obvious he doesn't give a rats-ar$e about the Community of Scots. [bold]DEMAND INDEPENDENCE NOW![/bold]
Scots Labour voters must now clearly see their loyalty has been betrayed...surely? Vote London Labour for pandering Tory middle-England policies! The Daily Rectum/Scum/Scottish branch of London Labour only exist to ensure Brown continues to do what he wants. Surely, it must be in-yer-face- obvious he doesn't give a rats-ar$e about the Community of Scots.
DEMAND INDEPENDENCE NOW! Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:08pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Mike Mackinnon, you are so right. Herr Braun
wouldn't know a socialist principle if it bit him in the *ss! To further highlight the calibre of the "socialists" in the Party one
need look no further than the likes of Brian Wilson. Once hilareously described as a "firey
lefty" by the BBC, this multi-millioaire
awaits his inevitable elevation to the House of Lords, as payment for his part in the Iraq massacres.
Further, it it wrong to even use the term
"Labour Party". It is dead, it does not exist any longer. What we have is THE NEW LABOUR PARTY - a foul creation of the extreme right,
and B*stard lovechild of those old animals
Tebbitt/Thatcher.
Mike Mackinnon, you are so right. Herr Braun
wouldn't know a socialist principle if it bit him in the *ss! To further highlight the calibre of the "socialists" in the Party one
need look no further than the likes of Brian Wilson. Once hilareously described as a "firey
lefty" by the BBC, this multi-millioaire
awaits his inevitable elevation to the House of Lords, as payment for his part in the Iraq massacres.
Further, it it wrong to even use the term
"Labour Party". It is dead, it does not exist any longer. What we have is THE NEW LABOUR PARTY - a foul creation of the extreme right,
and B*stard lovechild of those old animals
Tebbitt/Thatcher.
Posted by: al macdonald, stornoway on 12:09pm Sun 30 Sep 07
The only thing Gordon Brown stands for is Gordon Brown.
The only thing Gordon Brown stands for is Gordon Brown.
Posted by: Biffa on 12:10pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Iain I have to agree with others that this is an extraordinary volte face on your part. Last week you came in for some deserved criticism for yet another article praising Brown and willing him to seize the initiative and go for an early election.
This week you seem bewildered and hurt to discover that Brown is following the Clinton style "third way" and stealing the Tories best ideas.
I am starting to wonder if the ingrained Labour bias in the Scottish Media has clouded your judgement.
Many of the commenters here have seen Brown and New Labour for what they are. It has been apparent to us for years.
Personally I preferred it when you were bigging up Brown as I didn't have to keep saying to people " yes, yes I saw what MacWhirter wrote today but trust me he'll be back on message before too long". I am not too worried though.
Your dislike of Salmond and the SNP is such that you will take this flawed Tory version of Brown and sell the brand to Scots because that is what Scottish journalists do if they want to stay in a job.
Meanwhile Scots who can think for themselves will shake their heads as we have done for years and wonder what life would be like with a Media that wasn't joined at the hip to the Labour Party.
Iain I have to agree with others that this is an extraordinary volte face on your part. Last week you came in for some deserved criticism for yet another article praising Brown and willing him to seize the initiative and go for an early election.
This week you seem bewildered and hurt to discover that Brown is following the Clinton style "third way" and stealing the Tories best ideas.
I am starting to wonder if the ingrained Labour bias in the Scottish Media has clouded your judgement.
Many of the commenters here have seen Brown and New Labour for what they are. It has been apparent to us for years.
Personally I preferred it when you were bigging up Brown as I didn't have to keep saying to people " yes, yes I saw what MacWhirter wrote today but trust me he'll be back on message before too long". I am not too worried though.
Your dislike of Salmond and the SNP is such that you will take this flawed Tory version of Brown and sell the brand to Scots because that is what Scottish journalists do if they want to stay in a job.
Meanwhile Scots who can think for themselves will shake their heads as we have done for years and wonder what life would be like with a Media that wasn't joined at the hip to the Labour Party.
Posted by: EuroMac, Brussels, but kind of wishing he was at Callanish on 12:22pm Sun 30 Sep 07
al macdonald, stornoway said
[quote]The only thing Gordon Brown stands for is Gordon Brown.[/quote]
Al - that's [bold][italic]exactly[/italic][/bold] what I was trying to say - thank you for being so succinct!
al macdonald, stornoway said
The only thing Gordon Brown stands for is Gordon Brown.
Al - that's
exactly what I was trying to say - thank you for being so succinct!
Posted by: Labour to Power on 3:19pm Sun 30 Sep 07
What drivel in these comments above. GB is head and shoulders the outstanding politician of our generation. A brilliant chancellor for over a decade, he walks unopposed into Blairs shoes and withing a few months has transformed Labour's ailing fortunes to such an extent that he is now virtually obliged to call an early election to capitalise.
His success has the tories and lib dems in disarry. As for scotland being a problem, wih the SNP set to make huge gains, we shall see. If the SNP gain any more than a handful of seats ill be surprised, and most of them will be from the tories and lib dems, primarily because Labour will have done them down, with he SNP best placed locally to capitalise.
What drivel in these comments above. GB is head and shoulders the outstanding politician of our generation. A brilliant chancellor for over a decade, he walks unopposed into Blairs shoes and withing a few months has transformed Labour's ailing fortunes to such an extent that he is now virtually obliged to call an early election to capitalise.
His success has the tories and lib dems in disarry. As for scotland being a problem, wih the SNP set to make huge gains, we shall see. If the SNP gain any more than a handful of seats ill be surprised, and most of them will be from the tories and lib dems, primarily because Labour will have done them down, with he SNP best placed locally to capitalise.
Posted by: Rebelyell on 3:24pm Sun 30 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Gonyursel, Glasgow says[/bold] :Please oh please Gordie give us an election in Scotland and let us have that Labour bloodbath I have waited for all my life.[/quote] Just as usual - 8-0 for Labour in Glasgow for starters.
Gonyursel, Glasgow says :Please oh please Gordie give us an election in Scotland and let us have that Labour bloodbath I have waited for all my life.
Just as usual - 8-0 for Labour in Glasgow for starters.
Posted by: EuroMac, Brussels on 3:47pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Labour to Power
A couple of questions:
"GB is head and shoulders the outstanding politician of our generation"
What do you base this on? What are his achievements?
"A brilliant chancellor for over a decade"
See question above.
The guy is a serial bottle-merchant:
He couldn't challenge Blair, he couldn't face a democratic challenge, and he couldn't face tackling the 'hot air' economy he has created. We are now so dependent on the City of London service economy, he cannot challenge the underpinnings, despite the damage it is doing, because his (totally false and unjustified) reputation is based on it.
I reckon he thought he could pass the parcel to his mate Alistair Darling and get away with it, claiming it was all fine when he left. But he left it too late (lack of cojones as usual) and it will take him down.
The only reason he would hold an election now is so that he has another 5 years lined up before the sh*t hits the fan.
Outstanding my *rse.
Labour to Power
A couple of questions:
"GB is head and shoulders the outstanding politician of our generation"
What do you base this on? What are his achievements?
"A brilliant chancellor for over a decade"
See question above.
The guy is a serial bottle-merchant:
He couldn't challenge Blair, he couldn't face a democratic challenge, and he couldn't face tackling the 'hot air' economy he has created. We are now so dependent on the City of London service economy, he cannot challenge the underpinnings, despite the damage it is doing, because his (totally false and unjustified) reputation is based on it.
I reckon he thought he could pass the parcel to his mate Alistair Darling and get away with it, claiming it was all fine when he left. But he left it too late (lack of cojones as usual) and it will take him down.
The only reason he would hold an election now is so that he has another 5 years lined up before the sh*t hits the fan.
Outstanding my *rse.
Posted by: Murdo Cairns on 4:11pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Listening to him trying his best to be less Scottish while subsuming Scotland into Britain in his speech for fear the very mention of his homeland might count against him with the English voters (I read that he didn't put in an appearance at the customary conference 'Scottish' evening.), one is struck by just how 'unclassy' this man really is! His 'ever so humble' stance is really demeaning. He would like to portray himself as with us in our toil; a man who's very ethos is the values of 'old Labour'. What a charlatan! Like his mate Tony Blair, he never saw a rich man that he couldn't love unconditionally; he has pinched the workers pensions and handed the family heirlooms to the fatcats through his slavish love for PPP and PFI, endorsed to the tune of millions criminally negligent and unworkable IT schemes, poured countless amounts into Trident and an illegal war while at the same time cutting the money to the armed forces. His legendary control-freakery, his off-loading of the blame (think the hapless Alasdair Darling and the Northern Rock two week ago). Listening to him last week pouring on the syrup of his humble background garnished with religious homilies, his hopes and aspirations for how he sees the future, I thought can the public really be so gullible as to swallow any of this? There's nothing classy about a chancer. And that is what Gordon Brown is.
Listening to him trying his best to be less Scottish while subsuming Scotland into Britain in his speech for fear the very mention of his homeland might count against him with the English voters (I read that he didn't put in an appearance at the customary conference 'Scottish' evening.), one is struck by just how 'unclassy' this man really is! His 'ever so humble' stance is really demeaning. He would like to portray himself as with us in our toil; a man who's very ethos is the values of 'old Labour'. What a charlatan! Like his mate Tony Blair, he never saw a rich man that he couldn't love unconditionally; he has pinched the workers pensions and handed the family heirlooms to the fatcats through his slavish love for PPP and PFI, endorsed to the tune of millions criminally negligent and unworkable IT schemes, poured countless amounts into Trident and an illegal war while at the same time cutting the money to the armed forces. His legendary control-freakery, his off-loading of the blame (think the hapless Alasdair Darling and the Northern Rock two week ago). Listening to him last week pouring on the syrup of his humble background garnished with religious homilies, his hopes and aspirations for how he sees the future, I thought can the public really be so gullible as to swallow any of this? There's nothing classy about a chancer. And that is what Gordon Brown is.
Posted by: Labour tp Power on 4:20pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Euromac,
Outstanding by any objective criteria, the UK economy having outperformed the EU and the US during his stewardship - and with record public spending, record living standards, and progressive social reforms such as the minimum wage and tax credits as well.
As for not challenging Blair in 1994 - this was sensible, as Blair had the votes and a challenge hence fruitless. As it turned out Brown served with distinction as chancellor for over a decade and still got the top job - and still a relatively young man with a big parliamentary majority and likely a bigger one as soon as he names the date.
All remarkable, patient, and stategic by any objective criteria - if you take your pedjudicial blinkers off. He could concievably dominate two full decades of high level politics, an authentic giant who in effect lays the foundations of 21st century Britain.
Euromac,
Outstanding by any objective criteria, the UK economy having outperformed the EU and the US during his stewardship - and with record public spending, record living standards, and progressive social reforms such as the minimum wage and tax credits as well.
As for not challenging Blair in 1994 - this was sensible, as Blair had the votes and a challenge hence fruitless. As it turned out Brown served with distinction as chancellor for over a decade and still got the top job - and still a relatively young man with a big parliamentary majority and likely a bigger one as soon as he names the date.
All remarkable, patient, and stategic by any objective criteria - if you take your pedjudicial blinkers off. He could concievably dominate two full decades of high level politics, an authentic giant who in effect lays the foundations of 21st century Britain.
Posted by: Joe Lever on 5:02pm Sun 30 Sep 07
I can't see why we Scots have such a downer on Gordon - a central player in the govenment that delivered us our own parliament. And, apart from his excellent domestic record, he is also a genuine internationalist who is leading the world on issues of aid and development - a hero in african progressive circles.
Its too early to judge him as his work is only half done, but we could realstically be talking about the most distinguised Scottish politician of all time when looked at historically. ( who else comes close?) But if you read the rag bag of posters here you'd think he was a crss between Hitler and Al Capone.
Oh why, oh why are we scots so quick to put down our own?
I can't see why we Scots have such a downer on Gordon - a central player in the govenment that delivered us our own parliament. And, apart from his excellent domestic record, he is also a genuine internationalist who is leading the world on issues of aid and development - a hero in african progressive circles.
Its too early to judge him as his work is only half done, but we could realstically be talking about the most distinguised Scottish politician of all time when looked at historically. ( who else comes close?) But if you read the rag bag of posters here you'd think he was a crss between Hitler and Al Capone.
Oh why, oh why are we scots so quick to put down our own?
Posted by: Melanthios on 5:04pm Sun 30 Sep 07
1. "the UK economy having outperformed the EU and the US during his stewardship"
OK How about this from The Japan Fair Trading Commission?
"UK productivity has been
consistently lower than that of our major competitors."
1. "the UK economy having outperformed the EU and the US during his stewardship"
OK How about this from The Japan Fair Trading Commission?
"UK productivity has been
consistently lower than that of our major competitors."
Posted by: Joe Lever on 5:21pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Melanthios - That's sight, one out of context quote from a japanese source ( I suspct on the narrower issueop of industrial productivity)proves my point - despite OECD and World Bank figures that prove otherwise on overall economic operformance.
It is beyond any doubt the the UK under Brown has outperfomed most EU countries over the past decade and the US also. True, most Far East economies will have outperformed us all, but hardly GB faults i suggest. On any realistic comparisson GB has done well.
Melanthios - That's sight, one out of context quote from a japanese source ( I suspct on the narrower issueop of industrial productivity)proves my point - despite OECD and World Bank figures that prove otherwise on overall economic operformance.
It is beyond any doubt the the UK under Brown has outperfomed most EU countries over the past decade and the US also. True, most Far East economies will have outperformed us all, but hardly GB faults i suggest. On any realistic comparisson GB has done well.
Posted by: EuroMac on 5:46pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Labour tp Power
I have no prejudicial blinkers - a claim you may struggle to make, given your posting name. (what's with the 'tp' BTW?). Think you have more of an agenda than me, not to mention dogma and tribalism
You may have noticed I post from Brussels, where I live, and have lived for a number of years. No expat contract, just a matter of choice when I watched UK going slowly down the pan. I can therefore comment impartially, unlike you, who seems totally blind to the flaws of the man.
As for record public spending - not achieving much in the way of VFM, is it? PFI keeping a shedload of stuff of the books, so we don't really know what we are getting anyway
record living standards - really? Not for healthcare (check EHCI 2005 and 2006), not for education,
progressive social reforms such as the minimum wage and tax credits as well - a necessary evil given the dependecne on service sector jobs and imported labour.
As for not challenging Blair, I did not mean just in 1994 - i meant ever. HE hated Blair and resented his popularity. Are you seriously trying to suggest he put in 10 years as Chancellor through choice and loyalty?
Pull the other one - he had no stomach for the dirty work - didn't want to do a Heseltine, that's all.
If we pick this thread up in 6 months we have abetter feel for BRown's 'legacy'...
Labour tp Power
I have no prejudicial blinkers - a claim you may struggle to make, given your posting name. (what's with the 'tp' BTW?). Think you have more of an agenda than me, not to mention dogma and tribalism
You may have noticed I post from Brussels, where I live, and have lived for a number of years. No expat contract, just a matter of choice when I watched UK going slowly down the pan. I can therefore comment impartially, unlike you, who seems totally blind to the flaws of the man.
As for record public spending - not achieving much in the way of VFM, is it? PFI keeping a shedload of stuff of the books, so we don't really know what we are getting anyway
record living standards - really? Not for healthcare (check EHCI 2005 and 2006), not for education,
progressive social reforms such as the minimum wage and tax credits as well - a necessary evil given the dependecne on service sector jobs and imported labour.
As for not challenging Blair, I did not mean just in 1994 - i meant ever. HE hated Blair and resented his popularity. Are you seriously trying to suggest he put in 10 years as Chancellor through choice and loyalty?
Pull the other one - he had no stomach for the dirty work - didn't want to do a Heseltine, that's all.
If we pick this thread up in 6 months we have abetter feel for BRown's 'legacy'...
Posted by: Pat on 5:48pm Sun 30 Sep 07
"Oh why, oh why are we scots so quick to put down our own?" writes John Lever.
I don't think Gordon would thank you for taking posession of him like that. He's British now remember?
I think yourself and your mate Labour to Power probably have the glassy eyed stare of the acolytes that Iain mentions.
Must obey Gordon....Must obey Gordon....Must obey ............
This is The Sunday Herald lads, your "Cleared by the Party" bullsh*t cuts no ice here.
"Oh why, oh why are we scots so quick to put down our own?" writes John Lever.
I don't think Gordon would thank you for taking posession of him like that. He's British now remember?
I think yourself and your mate Labour to Power probably have the glassy eyed stare of the acolytes that Iain mentions.
Must obey Gordon....Must obey Gordon....Must obey ............
This is The Sunday Herald lads, your "Cleared by the Party" bullsh*t cuts no ice here.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:55pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Labouring to Power[quote]GB is head and shoulders the outstanding politician of our generation.[/quote]But the rest of him is a sack of rotten potatoes? How dare you! How dare you liken the Great Leader to an advert for some sort of poncy hair shampoo!
Shame on you! Get thee to church at once and repent.
Labouring to Power
GB is head and shoulders the outstanding politician of our generation.
But the rest of him is a sack of rotten potatoes? How dare you! How dare you liken the Great Leader to an advert for some sort of poncy hair shampoo!
Shame on you! Get thee to church at once and repent.
Posted by: Joe Lever, 613-354 on 6:01pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Pat, Gordon is Scottish AND British, just as most people who live in Scotland define themsleves. And Gordon is surely a great Scot?
And Euromac: "do a Heseltine?" Why on earth would he want to do that - fight a battle he couldn't win and end up marginalised? No, Gordon took on Tony and won! He's in No 10 and Tony somewhere south of Ramhalla to remind you.
Pat, Gordon is Scottish AND British, just as most people who live in Scotland define themsleves. And Gordon is surely a great Scot?
And Euromac: "do a Heseltine?" Why on earth would he want to do that - fight a battle he couldn't win and end up marginalised? No, Gordon took on Tony and won! He's in No 10 and Tony somewhere south of Ramhalla to remind you.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 6:11pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Joe pulls the wrong lever[quote]Gordon is Scottish AND British just as most people who live in Scotland define themsleves[/quote]No, they do not.
Ask an English man what he is and he will answer "English." Only if the loss of Scotland or Wales troubles him will he fall back on calling everybody British. The convenience is is his, not mine.
Joe pulls the wrong lever
Gordon is Scottish AND British just as most people who live in Scotland define themsleves
No, they do not.
Ask an English man what he is and he will answer "English." Only if the loss of Scotland or Wales troubles him will he fall back on calling everybody British. The convenience is is his, not mine.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 6:15pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Joe Confused asks[quote]Oh why, oh why are we scots so quick to put down our own?[/quote]We praise those who put Scotland's interests first, not their personal ambition. Okay?
And the rticle above is excellent - I suggest you think about what is says for the journalist has the ability to read between the lines, not only the Labour party line on handouts.
Joe Confused asks
Oh why, oh why are we scots so quick to put down our own?
We praise those who put Scotland's interests first, not their personal ambition. Okay?
And the rticle above is excellent - I suggest you think about what is says for the journalist has the ability to read between the lines, not only the Labour party line on handouts.
Posted by: Richard Home on 6:43pm Sun 30 Sep 07
The article by Ian Macwhirter is indeed excellent - perceptive and balanced. But many of the comments that follow are most unfair to Gordon Brown, bordering on the abusive. I do not agree with all Joe Lever and Labour to Power assert, but I do admire them for fighting their corner and thank thm for bringing some much needed balance to the debate.
I was partticularly struck by the assertion that Gordon may well turn out to be the greatest ever politician from Scotland. It struck me a a bold claim, but when I thought about it I could think of few who even compared, let alone bettered him. And that's only his record to date, he's only just got real power, an I back hm to use it wisely.
The article by Ian Macwhirter is indeed excellent - perceptive and balanced. But many of the comments that follow are most unfair to Gordon Brown, bordering on the abusive. I do not agree with all Joe Lever and Labour to Power assert, but I do admire them for fighting their corner and thank thm for bringing some much needed balance to the debate.
I was partticularly struck by the assertion that Gordon may well turn out to be the greatest ever politician from Scotland. It struck me a a bold claim, but when I thought about it I could think of few who even compared, let alone bettered him. And that's only his record to date, he's only just got real power, an I back hm to use it wisely.
Posted by: Pat on 6:54pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Richard, do you see no irony in thanking the two Stepford commenters for " bringing some much needed balance to the debate".
This is Scotland. Balance in political debate or reporting for that matter isn't allowed.
The opinions of the commenters above (apart foom the borgs) is dissent.
Please don't drag up the old chestnut of requesting civilised debate. It is widely viewed as code for " don't attack Labour".
Richard, do you see no irony in thanking the two Stepford commenters for " bringing some much needed balance to the debate".
This is Scotland. Balance in political debate or reporting for that matter isn't allowed.
The opinions of the commenters above (apart foom the borgs) is dissent.
Please don't drag up the old chestnut of requesting civilised debate. It is widely viewed as code for " don't attack Labour".
Posted by: Richard Home on 7:16pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Pat, you seem to see plots everywhere.
Why are those of disagree with you "stepford" commentators or "borgs"? It is they who strike me as the dissenters in this forum. Indeed it is refreshing to hear from people who are at least prepared to give Gordon Brown a fair chance.
Pat, you seem to see plots everywhere.
Why are those of disagree with you "stepford" commentators or "borgs"? It is they who strike me as the dissenters in this forum. Indeed it is refreshing to hear from people who are at least prepared to give Gordon Brown a fair chance.
Posted by: Pat on 7:29pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Fair point Richard I may be paranoid. Incidentally what did you make of the burying of the McCrone report?
Labour probably just misplaced it I expect, the careless wee rascals.......
Fair point Richard I may be paranoid. Incidentally what did you make of the burying of the McCrone report?
Labour probably just misplaced it I expect, the careless wee rascals.......
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 7:49pm Sun 30 Sep 07
.
There's a word for your "reasonableness" Richard Home, it's called appeasement.
... and by "disent" are you inferring disloyalty or a somewhat superior condescending inference along the lines of us thinking people being somewhat akin to luddites and against the orderly progression of whatever?
We are the sum of our individual experiences and circumstances.
... and I for one do not consider the New Labour party to be representitive of anything I wish to be associated with.
I wouldn't pi$h on himself if he was on fire so I wouldn't.
.
.
There's a word for your "reasonableness" Richard Home, it's called appeasement.
... and by "disent" are you inferring disloyalty or a somewhat superior condescending inference along the lines of us thinking people being somewhat akin to luddites and against the orderly progression of whatever?
We are the sum of our individual experiences and circumstances.
... and I for one do not consider the New Labour party to be representitive of anything I wish to be associated with.
I wouldn't pi$h on himself if he was on fire so I wouldn't.
.
Posted by: Labour to Power on 8:07pm Sun 30 Sep 07
The Labour party form the elected government of this country and represent the millions of people who voted for them. They are therfore representative of quite a lot - count me in.
I remain bemused though by the need for our opponents to be so abusive, indeed often uncouth. If their case were so strong.........
The Labour party form the elected government of this country and represent the millions of people who voted for them. They are therfore representative of quite a lot - count me in.
I remain bemused though by the need for our opponents to be so abusive, indeed often uncouth. If their case were so strong.........
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 8:12pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Do the following clinical symptoms remind you of anyone?
The DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder are:
A. A pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy, as indicated by at least five of:
1. a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, ie unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, ie takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes
Do the following clinical symptoms remind you of anyone?
The DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder are:
A. A pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, lack of empathy, as indicated by at least five of:
1. a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, ie unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. is interpersonally exploitative, ie takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 8:17pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Richard,
The pension scam showed a little of what Brown is about. Consider the stealth taxes and more recently the aboloshin of the 20% lower-end tax threshhold that was designed to help the poor. He backed in cabinet an illegal war which has resulted in the unecessary deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, half a million of whom are under the age of 5. He is all for Trident and has continually squandered North Sea Oil whilst the Scottish population has become increasingly impoverished and been forced to move abroad.
He was/is part of 'Neu Labour' which ostensibly was the only answer to the inability of the British state to support a real political system. It is an empty vessel - the emperor with no clothes. A jobs for the boys network and easy bribes for pals in the city.
Blair's eventual unpopularity meant that the Tory Cameron became popular for a while. With Blair's replacement the venom of a certain section of the population towards the Tories has returned to the benefit of Brown. All Brown has done is ruthlessly ascend the jobclub party by creating tribal alliances and ruthlessly outmanouvering opponents; that is a Stalinist style cult of personality and nothing to do with progressive politics. His petty and vindictive approach to opponents will soon haunt his leadership and middle-England, glad to be shot of Blair will soon realise what he is like. He has won no election yet and may win one, if he calls it soon, by default i.e. not being Tony.
If you want to know of better politicians from Scotland, even in his own party, I'd say Dewar was a better politician, Cooke was a better statesman, Smith was a better leader and outwith his party Salmond is better in all three categories. Ofcourse there would be many more but not everyone is able to utterly do the Faustian pact to the extent Brown has. There is a difference between success in rank and success in history. As Brown has become an empty Neu Labour marketing phenomenon he will only achieve the former.
As for the SNP winning seats in Scotland:
Result 2005:
Labour 38.87 % 40/59
SNP 17.66 % 6/59
Lib 22.63 % 11/59
Tory 15.83 % 1/59
With current swings to the SNP from Tory/Libs the SNP go into contention (based on the maths and Holyrood voting) in the following seats: Aberdeen North, Argyll & Bute, Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk (outside), Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch East, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale (outside), Dundee West, Edinburgh East, Falkirk, Glenrothes (outside), Gordon, Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey, Kilmarnock & Loudoun, Livingston, Midlothian (outside), Ochil & South Perthshire, Ross Skye & Lochaber, Stirling.
Richard,
The pension scam showed a little of what Brown is about. Consider the stealth taxes and more recently the aboloshin of the 20% lower-end tax threshhold that was designed to help the poor. He backed in cabinet an illegal war which has resulted in the unecessary deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, half a million of whom are under the age of 5. He is all for Trident and has continually squandered North Sea Oil whilst the Scottish population has become increasingly impoverished and been forced to move abroad.
He was/is part of 'Neu Labour' which ostensibly was the only answer to the inability of the British state to support a real political system. It is an empty vessel - the emperor with no clothes. A jobs for the boys network and easy bribes for pals in the city.
Blair's eventual unpopularity meant that the Tory Cameron became popular for a while. With Blair's replacement the venom of a certain section of the population towards the Tories has returned to the benefit of Brown. All Brown has done is ruthlessly ascend the jobclub party by creating tribal alliances and ruthlessly outmanouvering opponents; that is a Stalinist style cult of personality and nothing to do with progressive politics. His petty and vindictive approach to opponents will soon haunt his leadership and middle-England, glad to be shot of Blair will soon realise what he is like. He has won no election yet and may win one, if he calls it soon, by default i.e. not being Tony.
If you want to know of better politicians from Scotland, even in his own party, I'd say Dewar was a better politician, Cooke was a better statesman, Smith was a better leader and outwith his party Salmond is better in all three categories. Ofcourse there would be many more but not everyone is able to utterly do the Faustian pact to the extent Brown has. There is a difference between success in rank and success in history. As Brown has become an empty Neu Labour marketing phenomenon he will only achieve the former.
As for the SNP winning seats in Scotland:
Result 2005:
Labour 38.87 % 40/59
SNP 17.66 % 6/59
Lib 22.63 % 11/59
Tory 15.83 % 1/59
With current swings to the SNP from Tory/Libs the SNP go into contention (based on the maths and Holyrood voting) in the following seats: Aberdeen North, Argyll & Bute, Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk (outside), Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch East, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale (outside), Dundee West, Edinburgh East, Falkirk, Glenrothes (outside), Gordon, Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey, Kilmarnock & Loudoun, Livingston, Midlothian (outside), Ochil & South Perthshire, Ross Skye & Lochaber, Stirling.
Posted by: Scamp on 8:33pm Sun 30 Sep 07
[bold]Joe Lever on 5:21pm today[/bold]
I've never read such utter tripe.
What is beyond doubt is that the OECD recently said that they were concerned about the resilience of the UK economy. It's also beyond doubt that the Director General of the CBI has said "In today's rapidly changing economic world order, we must create more global enterprises if we want the UK to remain in the top tier of world economies. Yet in the past 20 years the number we have built from scratch has been low." It's also beyond doubt that household debt levels have never, ever been higher, that the trade deficit has never been higher, house price inflation has never been higher and the rate at which companies are being sold off to overseas companies has also never been higher.
Brown also deliberately and callously refused to allow house price inflation to be included in the RPI. If he had then much higher interest rates would have probably killed off the house price boom at birth.. But he didn't want to upset his wee chums in the City.... Result? Northern Rock and the use of tens of billions of taxpayers money to bail out the the banks..
Anyone who thinks this incompetent baffoon has a grasp on real economic issues needs their heads examining.
Joe Lever on 5:21pm today
I've never read such utter tripe.
What is beyond doubt is that the OECD recently said that they were concerned about the resilience of the UK economy. It's also beyond doubt that the Director General of the CBI has said "In today's rapidly changing economic world order, we must create more global enterprises if we want the UK to remain in the top tier of world economies. Yet in the past 20 years the number we have built from scratch has been low." It's also beyond doubt that household debt levels have never, ever been higher, that the trade deficit has never been higher, house price inflation has never been higher and the rate at which companies are being sold off to overseas companies has also never been higher.
Brown also deliberately and callously refused to allow house price inflation to be included in the RPI. If he had then much higher interest rates would have probably killed off the house price boom at birth.. But he didn't want to upset his wee chums in the City.... Result? Northern Rock and the use of tens of billions of taxpayers money to bail out the the banks..
Anyone who thinks this incompetent baffoon has a grasp on real economic issues needs their heads examining.
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 9:09pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Exactly Scamp,
Boosting the economy by ecnouraging people to get into debt. Household debt is now 1.3 Trillion pounds which is incredible and when the bubble bursts it's going to really hurt. What about competitiveness? Latest figures show UK at 10 billion defecit for September meaning a possible 100 Billion for this financial year. And that's with incredibly high oil prices scooping a bonanza into the treasury and export figures.
The UK is in danger of doing a titanic and then watch Labour's votes melt like snaw aff a dyke and Broon's manufactured image sink to oblivion.
Exactly Scamp,
Boosting the economy by ecnouraging people to get into debt. Household debt is now 1.3 Trillion pounds which is incredible and when the bubble bursts it's going to really hurt. What about competitiveness? Latest figures show UK at 10 billion defecit for September meaning a possible 100 Billion for this financial year. And that's with incredibly high oil prices scooping a bonanza into the treasury and export figures.
The UK is in danger of doing a titanic and then watch Labour's votes melt like snaw aff a dyke and Broon's manufactured image sink to oblivion.
Posted by: EuroMac, Brussels on 9:12pm Sun 30 Sep 07
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Posted by: p ohara, glasgow on 10:55pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Mcwhirter's off on his familiar demolition job on labour politicians.If they are young they are manic, and G.B is an alien.What a tiresome
journalist this bloke is. He's even more played out that the Tories.
Mcwhirter's off on his familiar demolition job on labour politicians.If they are young they are manic, and G.B is an alien.What a tiresome
journalist this bloke is. He's even more played out that the Tories.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:56pm Sun 30 Sep 07
Richard Home puts his money on a prediction[quote]I was particularly struck by the assertion that Gordon may well turn out to be the greatest ever politician from Scotland.[/quote]I don't think it wise to deal in terms like great, or best, or toughest.
Tell us what you think he [italic]stands[/italic] for, besides quotations from the Bible as his guiding light. And if you perceive anything concrete and agree with it, ask yourself if it has or will benefit Scotland.
So far Salmond has shown what has been missing from Scottish politicians: a genuine commitment to Scotland [italic]above all else,[/italic] and a political backbone. But not even I with an unshakeable determination to see self-rule re-established would dare suggest he might have the makings of a great political leader, not this early in his stewardship. That can only be stated with hindsight.
Would those, I wonder, who think Brown a potentially great leader be assuming the trappings of Downing Street lend a superior air to a politician's utterances than Holyrood? If so, and Scottish, we know they think their own country and themselves second-rate.
Richard Home puts his money on a prediction
I was particularly struck by the assertion that Gordon may well turn out to be the greatest ever politician from Scotland.
I don't think it wise to deal in terms like great, or best, or toughest.
Tell us what you think he
stands for, besides quotations from the Bible as his guiding light. And if you perceive anything concrete and agree with it, ask yourself if it has or will benefit Scotland.
So far Salmond has shown what has been missing from Scottish politicians: a genuine commitment to Scotland
above all else, and a political backbone. But not even I with an unshakeable determination to see self-rule re-established would dare suggest he might have the makings of a great political leader, not this early in his stewardship. That can only be stated with hindsight.
Would those, I wonder, who think Brown a potentially great leader be assuming the trappings of Downing Street lend a superior air to a politician's utterances than Holyrood? If so, and Scottish, we know they think their own country and themselves second-rate.
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 12:26am Mon 1 Oct 07
.
I was for thinking that myself,"Los Angeles", however you said it for me.
I have to ask these New Labour people this question; If they are to be honest with themselves, if they have any respect for themselves, if they have notions of integrity; would they not pause and consider the worth of New Labour and the worth of integrity, accountability, consideration,respec
t, discourse and open debate? Can you not,you of the supporters of New Labour open yourselves to what you proport to support civil and personal values without reasonable thought of just what is it you're in support of.
Does this blindness to past events that yourselves and others have witnessed by New Labour governance deprive you of all your senses of personal and civic values?
Be honest with yourselves, for if you cannot be then worry about your worth to your community and to yourselves and yours.
.
.
I was for thinking that myself,"Los Angeles", however you said it for me.
I have to ask these New Labour people this question; If they are to be honest with themselves, if they have any respect for themselves, if they have notions of integrity; would they not pause and consider the worth of New Labour and the worth of integrity, accountability, consideration,respec
t, discourse and open debate? Can you not,you of the supporters of New Labour open yourselves to what you proport to support civil and personal values without reasonable thought of just what is it you're in support of.
Does this blindness to past events that yourselves and others have witnessed by New Labour governance deprive you of all your senses of personal and civic values?
Be honest with yourselves, for if you cannot be then worry about your worth to your community and to yourselves and yours.
.
Posted by: Joe Middleton, Edinburgh on 10:22am Mon 1 Oct 07
Why should Brown be admired for putting his own interests before that of his fellow Scots? He clearly only backs 'the British option' because it suits him.
Why should Brown be admired for putting his own interests before that of his fellow Scots? He clearly only backs 'the British option' because it suits him.
Posted by: David W, Glasgow on 12:58pm Mon 1 Oct 07
[italic][quote]All remarkable, patient, and stategic by any objective criteria - if you take your pedjudicial blinkers off. He could concievably dominate two full decades of high level politics, an authentic giant who in effect lays the foundations of 21st century Britain.[/quote] [/italic]
I think this sums it up perfectly. Brown has indeed laid the foundations for 21st century Britain and if that isn't a damning indictment on the man and his work, then what is?
Soaring crime, a Home Office in disarray, immigration controls non-existent, a Health Service on its knees, overcrowded prisons, a country tarnished by Iraq etc etc....
All remarkable, patient, and stategic by any objective criteria - if you take your pedjudicial blinkers off. He could concievably dominate two full decades of high level politics, an authentic giant who in effect lays the foundations of 21st century Britain.
I think this sums it up perfectly. Brown has indeed laid the foundations for 21st century Britain and if that isn't a damning indictment on the man and his work, then what is?
Soaring crime, a Home Office in disarray, immigration controls non-existent, a Health Service on its knees, overcrowded prisons, a country tarnished by Iraq etc etc....
Posted by: Labour to power on 8:48pm Mon 1 Oct 07
[bold]GB = Scotland = Britain = justice.[/bold]
Oh you pathetic prophets of doom. Say, predict whay you want but it will not happen.
A general election and an increased Labour majorty by November. for sure.
And the SNP? - if they gave four more seats ( all gained from the libs and tories) I will be suprised. But Labour will confortably win - in Scotland and GB.
Critics! You all talk pish - as events will prove. Happy moaning.
GB = Scotland = Britain = justice.
Oh you pathetic prophets of doom. Say, predict whay you want but it will not happen.
A general election and an increased Labour majorty by November. for sure.
And the SNP? - if they gave four more seats ( all gained from the libs and tories) I will be suprised. But Labour will confortably win - in Scotland and GB.
Critics! You all talk pish - as events will prove. Happy moaning.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:21am Tue 2 Oct 07
Labouring to Power[quote]Happy moaning.[/quote]An oxymoron, as is your web name, oxy-moron.
Labouring to Power
Happy moaning.
An oxymoron, as is your web name, oxy-moron.
Posted by: Cyberbairn, Falkirk on 8:34am Tue 2 Oct 07
Labour to Power I have no time for, by sadly I fear he may have a point. In any immediate UK general election the SNP may wee be seen as an irrelevance, since in a sense they are as they cant hope ( dont want) to govern at westminster. And there is a real danger , whatever we think of him, that voter here will express their scottishness by voting for brown, the local lad - the first unambiguously Scottish PM we have had in living memory. Others may vote Labour as an sort of insurance policy agaisnt the SNP in Holyrood - they like what Salmond is doing but for the moment they are happy with the half way house of Labour at westminster and the SNP at Holyrood. In short, it is a little to early for many to fully endorse the SNP and at this stage in his premiership many will give brown the benefit of the doubt.
So as an enthusisatic nat I am less gung ho about our General election prspects than other posters.
Labour to Power I have no time for, by sadly I fear he may have a point. In any immediate UK general election the SNP may wee be seen as an irrelevance, since in a sense they are as they cant hope ( dont want) to govern at westminster. And there is a real danger , whatever we think of him, that voter here will express their scottishness by voting for brown, the local lad - the first unambiguously Scottish PM we have had in living memory. Others may vote Labour as an sort of insurance policy agaisnt the SNP in Holyrood - they like what Salmond is doing but for the moment they are happy with the half way house of Labour at westminster and the SNP at Holyrood. In short, it is a little to early for many to fully endorse the SNP and at this stage in his premiership many will give brown the benefit of the doubt.
So as an enthusisatic nat I am less gung ho about our General election prspects than other posters.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:45am Tue 2 Oct 07
Cyberbairn wonders if Brown will hoover up all the votes[quote]Labour to Power I have no time for, by sadly I fear he may have a point[/quote]He has no point since he dos not care for the wll-being of his own country or those that do.
And I disagree strongly with you that a snap election will undermine SNP hopes. There is a whole new mood in Scotland [italic]and[/italic] England.
It is Brown who fears an election otherwise he would have denied there is to be one or called it by now. I don't think there is any doubt, however, that traditional Labourites in Scotland will vote for Brown, but I read of many who will not. That is the significant aspect to the new reality. And after Iraq there are few willing to give Brown the "benefit of the doubt."
Cyberbairn wonders if Brown will hoover up all the votes
Labour to Power I have no time for, by sadly I fear he may have a point
He has no point since he dos not care for the wll-being of his own country or those that do.
And I disagree strongly with you that a snap election will undermine SNP hopes. There is a whole new mood in Scotland
and England.
It is Brown who fears an election otherwise he would have denied there is to be one or called it by now. I don't think there is any doubt, however, that traditional Labourites in Scotland will vote for Brown, but I read of many who will not. That is the significant aspect to the new reality. And after Iraq there are few willing to give Brown the "benefit of the doubt."